Friday, April 21, 2006

Last week at Womensfest...

I had the pleasure of listening to Kate Sutton speak in the quad last week at Womensfest, a yearly AUSA event organised by our lovely Women's Rights Officer, Allanah Golder.

This speech really spoke to me, as someone who has been criticised for being outspoken and a feminist at high school. It also made me realise that we as women shouldn't be taking our current position in society for granted, as it was fought hard for in a struggle more recently than most realise - there is a risk that our position can just as easily be taken away from us. And the struggle isn't over, as Kate highlights.

I feel honoured to be friends with this awesome gal and fellow feminist :)




WOMENSFEST SPEECH -

Auckland University Students
11/04/2006

Kate Sutton

Hello, It’s great to be back after two years, it feels exactly the same. I was invited to speak because I am a successful woman. I must say that this is very flattering, as I do not yet feel successful.

When told this I started to think about what success is – Sure I do many things. I am a former president of this student union, a current University of Auckland councillor, I am the chairperson of the Tamaki community board and I am a project manager for a charitable trust in South Auckland as well as sitting on about 4/5 other boards and committees.

These are all things that I do, I don’t know if they make me successful but I am here anyway to talk about how I got here, how important it is to support one another and where women are at in the 21st century.

I wanted to speak about women overseas and their plight – the feminisation of poverty and how vital it is for us to understand what is happening overseas, the HIV/AIDS epidemic which affects mainly heterosexual females and their children. The trafficking of women from one country to the next because they have no home and their only option is to sell themselves.

Women are the victims war fought by men – women look after the children, keep the household and earn the money while the men are out fighting – it is not an equal or fair world for women overseas in our poorer countries who are raped, mutilated, tortured and without homes – they are victims not perpetrators.

To an audience like this it’s too hard, the issues are too complex and the subject matter to serious for us to listen to on a lovely sunny day in the university quad - it’s best to start here in New Zealand, at home.

The latest Human rights commission census on women tracks women’s participation in major decision making roles in New Zealand – you can ask most women if they are discriminated against and most pakeha women will say no. The problem is that the statistics tell a different story 24.2% of judges, 19.2% of newspaper editors, 17.2% of legal partnerships, 18.9% of mayors are women.

My party, the labour party talks about ‘half now’ and putting women out there yet only 32.2% of MPs are women and 23% of cabinet are women – its disgraceful – there is certainly the ability out there.

41% of state sector statutory bodies are women due mainly to the hard work of the Ministry of Women’s affairs yet only 8% of the NZX market directors are women – our private sector directorship take up is moving at quote the human rights commission ‘ glacial speed’
These statistics are not this way because women do not have the skills its because choices are limited for women in many of these roles and also because the systems that we work within are male dominated systems that are constructed by men.

The Executive director of the business round table Roger Kerr says that the reason why businesses do not take on female directors is because they are conservative – he also made comment that maybe this was not the role of women. My biggest concern about this statement, if we ignore the arrogance of Roger speaking about the ‘role of women’ is that business may see appointing female directors as risky – certainly many women have the skills to be directors and we know that diversity leads to good decision making, but I would have thought that business would be to conservative to take on migrants and refugees, non English speakers and people without formal education– not women – it seems like we have stepped back in time 30 years. To take on women, especially a well educated, pakeha woman is conservative!

I am passionate about good governance and directorship and I am trying to break the mold of these statistics and bring my sisters with me, but it’s a long slow battle.

At this university where many of you feel safe and free from discrimination, the so called ‘critic and conscience of society’ –is one of the worst places that systematically discriminates against women at every level. Why is it that 17% of professors and associate professors are women? But it that over 50% of general staff are women – its because there is still a hierarchy of jobs and there is a still a system where women have choices to move ahead - the boys network still exists in this university and ignores merit and denies women the choice to move forward in their career.

Why was I only the 5th female president out of over 100 presidents at the student union?
You could argue that women are not stupid enough to take up a role that earns only $20,000 per year but the truth is that it’s a boys club.

When I was running for president and throughout my presidency I was called fat, ugly and a slut – why is it that people will not attack my ideas but will readily attack my appearance and what I may or may not do in my private life.

This place is fucking appalling – men tell you what to do, men make you feel bad – men for the benefit of men shape the system. As students we are objectified – I have been one of the people who have made jokes about “easy first years” and I regret that – I did not do the sisterhood any favours. The reason why I made these jokes is because I bowed to covert peer pressure. I picked up on the language and I existed to be liked by men and envied by women but I was never going to be a fuckable first year so I went to student politics and that made me attractive to a whole other group of men – who run the place, who attack me, who judge me on whether they would fuck me or not.

University is a sad story for women and we don’t fight against it because we ignore it or see it as tough luck cause its normal.

Date rape, gang rape, sexual violence are all a norm here – it’s a joke because men make it so and they are the blokes, the boys club and they are putting us down and taking our jobs.

So the stats look bad, the story is still bad - what do we do? You have all taken the right step – being educated is the key – information is power and you are learning the tools to access this power here at university.

We must support our sisters and men must support us – women only got the vote through the help of men who went in and voted for the vote to be ours.

You can support other women into positions of responsibility by helping them out when the going gets tough, voting for them, mentoring them, finding role models in them. You can support women by finding them to give them opportunity – they are out there they just are not as obvious as men because they are off doing other things.

We must encourage a culture of diversity and this starts with accepting women as equal in our society by providing them with equitable opportunity. You have the key and the power to do this with your votes, your support, and your skills. When you become aware of who you are choosing and why then you can consciously offer women their rightful place in society.

The only reason that you are sitting here in the quad if you are women is because women before you fought for your right to be here and men supported them.

You all have an obligation to wake the fuck up and realise how every thing that you have now, all the rights to be free to earn money to marry when you want, to gain an education, to control your sexuality and bear children when you want – all of these rights have been fought for by women and they can be taken away.

A women’s place is in the struggle and we must continue to fight for others who are oppressed as they fought for us, we must take men with us and to do that we must understand what feminism is for this generation – we must act because to continue on without recognising the disadvantages of this system we will not get anywhere.

In solidarity
Kia Kaha

UPDATE

Just to illustrate the anti-feminist backlash, here are some views on this speech:

Ranting on the ROK
NZB3
The Whig
On the Right
Lindsay Mitchell
David Farrar

And Xavier sticks it to them at Kete Were by writing 'Is that all they could come up with'

67 comments:

graham watson said...

What an absolute spinner, she'll do well in Labour.

Check these sentences out ... "University is a sad story for women and we don’t fight against it because we ignore it or see it as tough luck cause its normal.

Date rape, gang rape, sexual violence are all a norm here – it’s a joke because men make it so and they are the blokes, the boys club and they are putting us down and taking our jobs."

What an idiot to have to use hyperbole to attemt to create sensation out of nothing. The same woman who I am told there now exists documentary testimony of her making false rape claims against people. I am also told court papers are being prepared by her victim, to call her to account for her vivid imagination, so well expressed here again in her speech.

Another student politician who thinks its so cool to use the f word in public. You middle class kids, you're just so naughty, hi de hi, and bereft of a vocabulary necessary to inject passion without use of obscenities.

Allana said...

Kate states that "it can all be taken away".
Valid point.

Pamziewamzie said...

Don't classify me as middle class. Will blog a proper response later, but thought I'd make that clear.

Xavier said...

Why do you hate Kate so much, Graham? Where does the actual deep visceral hate stem from? I'm just curious...

pink panda said...

i think the speech is good.

big ups to kate for having the guts to stand up for women despite knowing the inevitable attack she would receive for doing so.

kia mana sis.

Paul said...

Great post, great speech. Timely as well, since earlier this week we heard that boys are falling behind in education and it was alleged that this is because curriculum changes (such as changing Technical Drawing to Graphics) have favoured girls. Maybe, just maybe, what is really happening is that girls are finally getting the opportunity to reach their potential.

Whenever women achieve something close to equality or whenever they excel, men will cry that it is unfair. As Kate says, all that women have achieved can be taken away. Many men want to do just that, because they feel threatened by women.

Anonymous said...

This speech fails the females it purports to serve, it is an amateurish and wild piece of 'penspersonship'
Kate, you represent a very very small percentage of females. Not all women have as healthy hatred of male culture as you do, despite having been served by it as badly as you have (obviously from your comments about being called ugly and large)

The speech is based on many false assumptions, i.e.'Women are the victims war fought by men,women look after the children...' What rubbish, man+women=family, the genders cooperate, its not about a battle

You mount a weak, syllogistic argument around third world countries vs our university, and the comparison is ridiculous

your comments on the statistics regarding the participation of females in key roles are more a signpost to the counterproductive role that leftist social engineering has for its interest groups under the PC driven education system, that has been in place for about 25 yrs. Women have been trained to do well via a curriculum where they will outperform males. Unfortunately, this cirriculum doesnt reflect the needs of the real world hence the continuation of these stats. It is no good, indeed it is a betrayal to train our young women in order to satisfy some pie-in-the-sky socialist dream of equality, when in fact you are setting up them all for a fall when they hit the real workplace. Also this system sets the males back so that productivity is falling. The real world is where it counts, if enough women were any good at these roles the marketplace would use them, i assure you.

It is also unclear whether the hormonal flux that occurs in many women (but not all) makes them unsuitable to be in many of the roles you have mentioned, not an intelligence issue, but rather a personality disorder kind of thing. Not all women are like this, but enough to skew the percentages out of kilter.

'Date rape, gang rape, sexual violence are all a norm here
absolutely ridiculous...our uni is a safe place for females esp compared to others in the third world...hmm

finally,
'A women’s place is in the struggle and we must continue to fight for others who are oppressed as they fought for us'

The collective leftist response to so called 'oppression' marginalises many worthwhile causes from help that they would otherwise receive from certain sectors in society,prevents intelligent debate on many issues, maintains the 'us vs them' mentality that pervades politics in general and policy-making to the detriment of the populace.
You will never be an MP, you simply aren't the correct intellectual or emotional grade.
apologies

Anonymous said...

made her bed and lying in (and out of) it

Ok so you're quite obviously earnest in your intent, which is to be commended regardless of your cause. However it's another thing entirely to bandy about such scurrilous lies as seem to be both now and in the past your stock and trade. "'Date rape, gang rape, sexual violence are all a norm here " Pardon me? The norm you say? Were this true and these behaviours 'the norm' as you posit, you would not be parading them in your usual self serving sensationalist manner as no one would bat an eyelid, due to the 'normality' of their occurence. I never once visited womanspace or wimminspace or whichever didactic is flavour of the month, but I have heard it stinks of fish. False accusation Hmmm? Makes it difficult for credible complainants aye Kate?

Paul said...

Anonymous, you are a wanker. I would like to think you represent a very, very small percentage of males. Sadly, I doubt if you do.

It's funny how women's behaviour, whenever it does not conform to norms determined by men, is always attributed to their hormones. Women are seen as incapable of thought and driven entirely by biological factors. Methinks it is like a weasel: men (some men at least) are incapable of thinking that women can be rational, because women do not conform to the prejudices that these men hold. Therefore, these women are irrational. The prejudices of these men are, of course, unquestionable.

Allana said...

I would like to thank Pamela for putting Kate's speech up for us to read.
I had NO idea that there were so many men who were threatened by feminism.
I am shocked and amazed at their insecurities, this is 2006 for goodness sake,
these ideas are not new, they have been around for 20 years or more.
Why is it so hard for men to hear that there is a culture of favoring men in business and
in politics in this country?
Hormonal surges indeed! What IS that about?
As if a hormone in the system could destroy reason, can affect learning
or intelligence. What utter rubbish! You might as well say that testosterone
affects your ability to operate machinery!
You could only say that if you have no idea how the mind works, how body and mind
fit together. Your ignorance is showing anon. Your prejudice against
women is clear. We hear you and mistrust you.

Please don't ever do jury duty in a rape trial.
Please don't ever be on the Board of Trustees of a school.
Please reconsider your point of view, it's fatally flawed.


It's reactions like the above which make me proud to say I am a feminist, to stand
up and be counted as being pro women.

Well said Xavier ! And thanks.

Thank you Kate, for waking the sleeping monster so we can see it
for what it is!

Rick said...

:: incredulous ::

But that was horrible nonsense! Who is she kidding? How thick can this girl be?

Unnamed abstractions of hetrosexual women somewhere offshore with some plight? What the hell?

What is this fascination with making men and woman homogenous in all industries? Sexual dimorphism exists, celebrate it Sutton! Maybe "most pakeha women" don't wish they were judges, newspaper editors, and politicians?

Stop swearing so much. And what's this 'equitable opportunity' lingo?

Somebody should give this speech a good fisking.

i saw a badger said...

allana and pam, who the fuck let u out of the kitchen and onto the computer? (but if the computer is in the kitchen (or laundry) thats ok :-)

hahahaha :-D

oh and do u shave ur armpits and legs :P ?

pink panda said...

fuck you badger boy. how about you attack the argument instead of pam and allana?

those of you attacking women's rights are exactly the people who we need to be strong against. it seems very weak indeed that you are not even capable of putting a name to the rubbish you espouse. at least graham and rick (as embarrassing as their rebuttals are) have enough pride in what they are saying to put their names beside it.

my interpretation of the quote "Date rape, gang rape, sexual violence are all a norm here" which has the men here so riled up, is that date rape, gang rape and sexual violence are acceptable at the level they exist at in todays society. why are there no campaigns or interventions running against the level of these vicious assaults against women? is it acceptable if there are only a few reported rapes a week? is it no longer a problem if women stop fighting for their rights to be safe in the streets, safe in the workplace, safe in their homes?

kate is right. our safety, our equality and our freedom all depends on us, as women to not shut up, to not sit down and to not put up with the scraps that society offers us. tokenism is not enough.

badger boi said...

hahahah u fell right into my trap :-)

would u like me to hand u a tissue?
oh no wait maybe that would make it look like as a woman ur too incapable of doin it yourself :-P

oh and pink panda maybe ud like to post ur real name? or do u not have enough pride in your argument?

oh yea the shaving question was ment as a joke, no harm intended :)

vote winston peters

Pamziewamzie said...

Graham, if you want to tell Kate something completely irrelevant to this, don't say it here, it's really not the right avenue.

To the first anonymous wanker (excuse the obscenity Graham, I had a think and really couldn't come up with a more suitable word), Kate doesn't hate males, your (badly argued) accusations that she does reflects your deep-seated insecurity and resentment of feminism. Kate is merely giving us a very informed description of what is actually happening at Auckland University; Kate has no 'us vs them' agenda, so just chill the fuck out.

Rick, you can rant on all you want about choice - but the fact that women aren't represented equally in law, Parliament, business, media editorship and other positions of decision making means that we get paid 84 cents for every dollar that men earn, and take twice as much time as men to pay back their student loans. These are shocking and highly unequal statistics. Choice? Who the hell would choose to earn less? Do you think that maybe, just maybe Rick, a prejudice against women exists in the workforce, that somehow CEOs and decision makers (oh look, they're almost all men) discriminate against females when deciding who will get the next pay rise or promotion?

Allana, thanks for your insightful contribution.

Panda, I know, women need to make more noise if society is to change.

Badger boy? Haha. Let me give you the Oxford Dictionary definition of a feminist, just so I can enlighten your poorly informed self:

Feminist: A person whose beliefs and behavior are based on feminism.

And Feminism: Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.

This post concerns feminism, and I prefer constructive arguments so please, for the sake of productiveness stick to the topic if you want to comment.

Nothing to do with whether a person shaves their legs or not, honestly.

Rick said...

This post concerns feminism, and I prefer constructive arguments so please, for the sake of productiveness stick to the topic if you want to comment.

I'll take you up on that.

Who the hell would choose to earn less?

You would. I would. We're born to be alive, right? Here to live and love and create! Not to work for Mr Burns, not to earn big piles of material things- means to an end. You naughty feminist, haven't you read Marylin Wearing's book?

we get paid 84 cents for every dollar that men earn, and take twice as much time as men to pay back their student loans

Illogial, Pam.

You say 2.00 as long, but I get 0.167 as long. Big difference, sweetheart.

If women earn at a rate of 84/100, that simplifies to 21/25, leaving only a tiny 4/25ths to catch up with men, or 1/6th.

Therefore, it will take women an extra 1/6th the amount of time it takes any man to accumulate a given sum.

If it takes a man an hour to pay off his student loan, it will take a woman one hour and 10mins to do the same.

But you say it will take the woman twice as long, two hours to his one.

These are shocking and highly unequal statistics

Could you have miscounted?

ps don't be a stranger

pink panda said...

they are two seperate statistics.

women take twice as long to pay off their student loan due to many reasons, including taking time off work to have a family, taking time off work to look after aging family members, the fact they earn less, and the fact that they generally borrow more.

as stunningly impressive as your math skills are, it seems your close reading skills have failed you on this one.

graham watson said...

"I existed to be liked by men and envied by women but I was never going to be a fuckable first year so I went to student politics and that made me attractive to a whole other group of men – who run the place, who attack me, who judge me on whether they would fuck me or not.

University is a sad story for women and we don’t fight against it because we ignore it or see it as tough luck cause its normal.

Date rape, gang rape, sexual violence are all a norm here – it’s a joke because men make it so and they are the blokes, the boys club and they are putting us down and taking our jobs."

In deference to Xavier I will refrain from commenting about Kates behaviour and motivations, except to say this is an interesting window in to her mind.

Having spent many years at Auckland University I deduce some people have an unusual perspective which I fing difficult to equate with reality. Nothing in this thread lends any evidence to the wild (and quite extreme) claims made in the last two of the three paragraphs I have quoted above.

Most (university) men embrace equality and abhor rape. The sort of rhetoric above is so off the planet it can only serve to either alienate or amuse. It does nothing to help our struggle for equality, rather it impedes it.

Blair said...

I'm convinced Sutton is not human. I am sure she has been genetically engineered by mad scientists somewhere to create the perfect whiny clueless lefty student politician.

She'd be an amusing Barnum sideshow if Labour wasn't so blatantly lacking in fresh blood and talent right now. Even so I look forward to her assuming her mantle as the Howard Dean of New Zealand politics.

Rick said...

Okay Panda girl, we'll play it your way.

The 84% figure clearly isn't a "shocking and highly unequal statistic" and is only a teeny tiny part in the claim that it takes a woman twice as long to pay a debt. So what's the rest?

many reasons, including taking time off work to have a family,

Well that takes some shock away, doesn't it? Having a family to love seems a worthy gain in return for taking a little longer to pay back a loan. That's why we take loans in the first place, to live and love in the now and pay latter. Would you do less, or blame those families who did?

taking time off work to look after aging family members,

Well again, another worthy trade-off. I'm getting less and less shocked now thanks to Panda's soothing explainations. How about you, Pam?

and the fact that they generally borrow more.

So women take longer to pay off their student loans because women borrow more in the first place! Thankyou Pink Panda, my conscience is now fully at ease. You've just hit Pam's highly unequal and shocking statistics right out of the park. Everyone's a winner.

Heine said...

I read recently that the women taking longer to pay off their loans was a myth. Can anybody else remember reading this?

Lindsay said...

I've blogged my response to this speech at www.lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com

Heine, I do.

http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2006/03/truth-about-student-loans.html

stef said...

Actually Kate makes a good point about stepping up.

Kiwi women have it so frickin easy compared to the crap that women put up with here (korea) and many other places in the world. But instead of using our freedom, we sit around bitching about it being hard.

We should be encouraging more women to get into business in the same way do into politics...

James said...

I could make a fortune selling nappies to Wimin and Maoris going by the boo-hoo poor me bullshit I read here and elsewhere...

Sophia said...

"Well that takes some shock away, doesn't it? Having a family to love seems a worthy gain in return for taking a little longer to pay back a loan. That's why we take loans in the first place, to live and love in the now and pay latter. Would you do less, or blame those families who did?"

Why is it cuturally accepted that women must be the ones that take time out of the work force to raise a family? Why do women struggle to have a career yet also raise a loving family? Why don't men have this same problem seeing as men have have been getting married, having children and being successful in their various careers for YONKS.

The problem is that society still insists that women should play the main role in the domestic sphere, and thus women continue to do so. Why isn't there a greater push for men to take paternity leave to help raise their children?

stef said...

sophia,

simple tell the men... fuck you I'm going off to work. My father looked after me when I was a baby...

Sophia said...

Yes thats very easy to say, but women are paid less than men, particularly in the private sector because they are assumed to be a liablity to the company. Why would a company hire a childless woman over a childless man when it is likely that sometime in the future the woman may have children and want time off? Its a sad fact that employers behave like this but its true. Basically, because society assumes that domestic responsibilities will be looked afer by women, they discriminate agaist women on this basis, regardless of whether the woman may ask the father of her child to stay home and raise the kids. Furthermore, if men in general earn more than women, why should the man be asked to stay home, thus reducing the income of the family? Basically, its one of those awful problems where society itself must change, which is a process that will take some time.

Kate is right in telling women to get off their arses and do something about this problem, but equally men should also help, not just stand at the side and watch. Just because it doesn't affect them doesn't mean they shouldn't take part in the struggle.

Anonymous said...

sophia

tell that to the thousands of men who have been fucked over by the family court and denied any chance of knowing their children.

now there are men and women in nz who have deserved the rucking they got in court. Our child abuse stats are testiment to that, BUT BUT BUT

In NZ we have a family court system that operates in an environment where proof is irrelavent not reqd and the bias is definatly towards the female.

She can lie & deceive every step of the way to get what she wants which is the man out of the way and a nice fat tax free cheque at the end of the month from the ex. Yep child support is tax free. She can turn a blind eye to parenting orders and play games like you would not believe and use her children as a weapon.

Oh yeah its nasty nasty business.

I would LOVE to see men far more involved in their childrens lives but some are denied that chance from a system with extreme female bias.

So how about all the feminists start campaigning Child Support and Family Court to bring more men into the fold to allow you the chance to shine eh? Lets see you put your money where your mouth is. Lets see some wimmin campaining against family court bias, unfair child support and CYFS destruction of families.

After all, all I want is true equality, not some twisted feminist equality which seems to me is men as an extint species.

It also seems to me that feminists cant handle women making their own choices of their own free will ie. Women who do decide to marry, have kids, stay at home and be happy. Guess what? I was not holding a gun to my wifes head when I asked her to spend the rest of her life with me and promised to her that together we would do it as a team. Guess what? She decided to stay at home to raise our 1st daugher even when it would of been way more financially advantageous for me to reduce my salary to $0 for child support reasons. She decided it was time to go back to work when she wanted. She decided to carry another baby to full term when we found out she was pregant. She home again for our 2nd daughter. She decided to abort what would have been our third child because we could not afford another one.

Some of you just couldn't wait I bet to paint her as some poor down trodden wife or mum that doesn't know the trap she is in or not realising her full potential as a women. BULLSHIT!!

Whos got the raw deal really. I happen to believe it currently men. Why? We are being driven to the boardroom by femazi crap where all men are rapists or kiddy fiddlers in disguise. Male teachers are a genuine distinct species. Thats why there is no room in business for the ladies! We aint got anywhere else to do our thing!!

We need police checks for fucks sake before we go to camp with our sons and daughters.

So as far as I am concernced feminists, you made your bed now lie in it

Heine said...

You know Pamzie, Stef is absolutely right. NZ feminists whinge and moan an awful lot and yet have it so good here.

Seamonkey Madness said...

Clint,

Here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/sundaystartimes/0,2106,3608657a6619,00.html

and here: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/archives/013523.html


And also Sophia said: "but women are paid less than men, particularly in the private sector"

Why say private sector? Is there some strange reason that the statistics are more likely to be equal/less skewed in the public sector? Hmmmm? I don't know - theres an awful lot of female nurses in the health sector? What about the education sector, particularly primary and secondary? Or is that not good enough and we want equality by shifting them all up to tertiary?

I could say more, but its just not worth the keystrokes on such vitriolic idiom.

Good day!

Heine said...

Heh nice work Seamonkey. More proof that this is all embarrassing and incorrect rambling from somebody who doesn't know any better. Come on Pam, surely you can be inspired by better people than this?

Anonymous said...

Kate Sutton is another great ad for voluntary membership of student associations.

At least when she was president of AUSA any students who didn't want her to be their representative and didn't want to be associated with her views could decide not to touch AUSA with a bargepole.

stef said...

Sophia, I don't doubt that women are paid less but we take on low paying jobs... because we take time out to care for our infants. I actually think that if we stopped making childcare a 'womens issue' and campaigned on the basis that its good for kids to have access to both parents then more men would be inclined to be involved to change it and take up the leave if it were offered.

pink panda said...

we've got it good here?

we should be comparing the way we are treated with the way men in new zealand are treated, not the way women in other countries are treated. the struggle for equality of women in other countries is an important issue, and one which kate no doubt supports, but the struggle for equality in new zealand should not be considered over just because there are women in other countries who have it even worse.

and rick... i'm sure there are plenty of intrinsic rewards that one gains from having children or looking after family members, but why should women have to pay for this?

the new interest free policy really does do something toward rectifying this inequality, this way, women can take time off without stressing about their growing loan size.

arent you glad you voted labour?

Anonymous said...

God you are good Panda! Why did you leave the Labourites...
You are totally bloody right, men in New Zealand should imagine if they were the ones making up only 32% of representatives in parliament or 8% of the management positions in the private sector and they see how much they whinge. At the moment girls have been finally been allowed the opportunity to excel at school and people are up in arms that boys are the slipping statistic. WELCOME TO OUR WORLD!!!
That is not to say that it isn't an important issue but one of the main reasons boys are struggling is that not enough males go into teaching and research shows it is because they can’t accept positions which they feel are low in status and pay. Without the few fantastic male teachers and the majority of female teachers prepared to sacrifice their pay we would have a school system minus the teachers. This attitude is further emphasised by the statistic already quoted of the amount of men in education management positions.

Kate said...

God, this is good - I hope the hits have been going well Pam - I knew that my notes would get this kind of reaction and its really interesting - comments on the swearing etc are fair - I wouldnt usually resort to that but a student audience really respond to this.
I also think that comments about my presidency etc are not useful here as I didnt make speeches like this during my presidency - I do understand the difference between my principles and representing a community.
Nice discussion - keeps life interesting eh.

Pamziewamzie said...

I agree Kate, the fact that some people have talked about things unrelated to your speech shows their lack of ability to come up with real arguments.

Seamonkey Madness said...

This is too easy...

Mad As A Date said:
"I wanted to speak about women overseas and their plight – the feminisation of poverty and how vital it is for us to understand what is happening overseas"

PP said:
"we've got it good here?

we should be comparing the way we are treated with the way men in new zealand are treated, not the way women in other countries are treated."


Nice one attacking the woman you're purporting to agree with.

And to the above Anonymous - wtf are you talking about? "Can't accept positions which they feel they are low in status and pay"? For shame! You and I both know its for fear of being labelled a perv and a kiddie fiddler in this day and age of PC.

And Pam darling, the only person commenting on something not related to the speech was 'Badger'. All other comments have been on the mark.

Heine said...

And yet the women on my blog, who are the ones working in the real world both in and outside NZ are singing a completely different tune.

Perhaps all of you who are students or long time academics should pull your heads out of the sand and note that this so called struggle is in your own heads.

Kate, I note you have not actually refuted any of the debate towards your speech. However it is priceless how you tried to spin away from the comments on your presidency... you will indeed fit into the Labour party very well. Methinks the real world will pass you by - what a pity!

Maria von Trapp said...

Heine - I work in the "real" world (whatever that is), and I'm with Kate on this. The struggle is not just in our heads - it shows in the treatment of us (by some of the disgusting comments on this blog for example) and in the statistics.

I just *love* the way everyone thinks their blog is a true representation of what's really going on out there. It's the blogosphere people!

Seamonkey Madness said:

"Nice one attacking the woman you're purporting to agree with."

I wouldn't have called Pink Panda's argument an "attack" at all, she was just pointing out a different view (and a very good one).

I do *apologise* that us womenfolk are not all utterly agreeable with each other and at home baking muffins singing sweetly. If that's what you want us to be, well I'm sorry but you're in the wrong country.

Kate - excellent speech, a total wake up call.

Sophia said...

"I actually think that if we stopped making childcare a 'womens issue' and campaigned on the basis that its good for kids to have access to both parents then more men would be inclined to be involved to change it and take up the leave if it were offered."

Yes, im completlely agree, and thats what I've been trying to get at. As long a childcare remains a woman's issue, its unlikely women and men will ever be equal in terms of pay. But, to fix that, society itself has to change, and unfortunatly there is no quick fix for that.

"More proof that this is all embarrassing and incorrect rambling from somebody who doesn't know any better"
- RUTHLESS!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Kate's piece is also a fascinating insight into the worldview of many Young Labour types.

The group is dominated by feminist and gay activists who somehow manage to feel persecuted and superior at the same time.

They look at Clark's social engineering with awe, and can't wait for their turn to make laws which will place even more restrictions on New Zealanders' lives.

Fortunately we get tidbits like Kate's speech which show how out of touch Young Labour are with the views of many young people.

Pamziewamzie said...

And what's wrong with feminist and gay activists?? Most males are feminists anyway - read the Oxford Dictionary definition of the word in my previous comment.

Labour doesn't try to place restrictions on people's lives, our aim is to make sure that everyone has less restrictions and equal opportunity.

So if the workforce for example is restricting women by not giving them equal employment opportunities, then the government should intervene - it makes sense, intervention is not a negative, restrictive thing if done for a good reason.

Heine said...

Pam, you know that none of us have problem with Gay activists whatsoever - where did you get that from?

MVT. Absolutely. My blog represents MY readers, where thankfully women from all over the spectrum have rubbished the remarks by Kate. And even better, they have all proved in the so called "male" environments that they can succeed. You try and argue otherwise to Cactus Kate and the other fine women who think Kate is talking out of her ass :)

And no MVT. Not one blog can honestly say they have all the answers. Nor have any of us proclaimed otherwise.

stef said...

Pink Panada that's my point New Zealand men on the whole treat women so well. I've experienced stuff here that no one would even dream of doing back home, but yet it's seen as perfectly ok. Back home I know if I work hard I can make it to the top, because I've seen it done. Here it's just unthinkable that a women could be President or CEO and be taken seriously.

Actually if you've read what I've written I agree with a lot of what Kate said.

What I pointed out is that now we have won all this freedom, we haven't really made use of it. I don't think that is sexism, I think that is laziness.

It's very easy to piss and moan about the lack of women in management positions, but if women aren't putting their names forward and doing the work to get there then we aren't going to have equality. Now what I like about Kate is that she is putting herself forward and out there, but on the whole women aren't.

We're choosing to look after kids. There's nothing wrong with that, but say that women are 'paying the price' for that is bollocks. Every choice has a downside. The male breadwinner who is slogging it out down out the office is paying in time away from his kids. It sucks, but kids need someone to look after them and they also require money. Neither job requries a Y chromosome, it just requires someone to do it.

Anon as a liberal feminist who teaches boys I find it abbhorrent that you would anyway gloat on the issue. Feminism is about working towards equality. Consigning boys to the scrap heap and saying 'welcome to our world is just replacing one injustice with another. If we've learned anything from out struggle it should be that we want the best for kids no matter if they have a penis or a vagina.

Kate said...

My whole speech was about how women should get out there - support one another into positions and put themselves forward. To change the perception and to support one another, I think the point has been missed by a few of you who clearly have the blinkers on.
I dont think that right wing male bloggers should continue to defer to 'cactus kate' as to what a women thinks or does. Cactus Kate has chosen to live her life in a certain way and I dont think that you should put it out as a shining example. We dont really know enough about each other to make those comments. Women are not a homogenous group and how we choose to deal with challenges will be different from person to person, group to group. My speech is a call to action - nothing more, nothing less.

pink panda said...

they may "treat women well" in nz, but compared to what? compared to how they treat women in korea or compared to how they treat other men in new zealand?

should we become complacent because we could have it much worse?

and for the record, i am in no way saying that choosing to stay at home with the kids is a second best option. i also dont believe that by choosing to stay home with the kids a woman is rejecting what the feminist movement has done for her.

women should have the freedom to choose what they want from life without society pressuring them into thinking they are sell outs for staying at home, or they are abandoning their children for going to work. women can do anything. this should be recognised and celebrated.

Anonymous said...

pamzie - there's nothing wrong with feminists and gay activists per se and I didn't say there was.

But what gets me is when they propose ideas which would restrict my freedom and then try to avoid scrutiny by hiding behind their persecuted minority 'identity' and claiming that anyone who criticises them is sexist or prejudiced against gays.

stef said...

Kate I agreed with the gist of what you said: women need to get out there and get active. I do think that women need to start having that same attuide in the workforce. Get in get involved and slog it out.

I also think that a lot of the radicals on campus did a lot of damage by putting up such extreme candidates which turned a lot of (male and female) people of voting for women and getting interested in women's issues. It's a fine line between being provocative in raising issues and looking like an idiot. I think the actions of the radicals during the late 90s really did do a lot of damage in that regard.

Panda - I don't care how New Zealand men treat me in comparison to other men because I don't see my value as merely being compared to a man. What as a women I want is to have the freedom to live my life the way I want to and in that way New Zealand totally rocks.

You also missed my point on childcare. It was why do women see the career/motherhood as 'our'choice... we've made it 'our issue' we're further sterotyping that it's that women have to make the choice. We need to stop thinking about childcare and work/life balance as a women's issue otherwise nothing is going to get done, just merely reinforcing the same garbage.

pink panda said...

stef are you saying that women in nz are doing just fine? that the battle has been fought and won?

and you missed my point on childcare. i was saying that we should have the choice to have children if we want. so should men. we should all have the choice to stay home and knit booties, or go out and become ceo of a company, regardless of which gender we are.

Seamonkey Madness said...

PP said:
"should we become complacent because we could have it much worse?"

Complacent? Whos being complacent?

You are if you're projecting your problem onto the menfolk. Instead of focussing your energy on blaming other people for all the apparent problems women face, put it into achieving more at work. Fight for that promotion you deserve, not because you have a pair of breasts and a vagina, but because you've increased productivity more than Smith in Accounts, or sold more beans than Johnny in Sales.

Do it on virtue alone, not because management have been kowtowed into an equal opportunity promotion policy by a tinkering socialist Government.

Listen to Stef. She has what a lot of women in New Zealand don't. Perspective.

Kate said...

I think you mean 'a perspective' seamonkey

Seamonkey Madness said...

You're right and wrong. I was incorrect in writing 'perspective'. But neither did I mean to write 'a perspective'.

What I should have written was 'a hell of a lot more perspective'.

Allanathefeminist said...

Stef has a point of view, Monkey has a point of view, Watson has a point of view,
Pink Panda has a point of view.
Everyone here has a point of view.

KATE HAS A POINT OF VIEW.
One with which I personally agree, she has spoken for me
and reminded me of principles hard fought over.
I remain astonished at the reaction.

Game said...

There are some very very prominent women in top job positions in NZ who are taken very very seriously. There just aren't many of them.

Although you do have to laugh at that garish lipstick that they like to coordinate with their powersuits.

clef said...

i just got a new job. my best friend got the same job too. we start on monday. it is at a call centre. just part time. i have worked in a call centre already, had over a years experience. he, my best mate, has never worked in a call centre. we both have similar backgrounds and similar education behind us. i am starting on $12.20 ph. he is starting on $13.50 ph. hmm. elaborate ye.

julie said...

I believe that some of those same women who worked hard for female rights had sons and I believe (as a mother) that they did not want their sons to suffer or their grandsons and so on. I know I don't want my boys to suffer because I support females rights.

I cannot think of any reason why females should not have equal rights but I think we need to be careful not to take power away from men even if men had power over women previously. I will not vote for anyone who cares only for one sex.

Anonomous
Unfortunately, some women are explioting their rights. And then some men are explioting their rights. Especially in the Family Court. This is an area where both men and women have to work together, side by side.

Jordan said...

This thread of comments helps explain with crystal clarity why I am proud to be a member of the Labour Party.

If people can't tell the difference between a speech designed to elicit a response and a policy document, well more fool them.

Good stuff Kate. And good on you for posting it, Pam.

sagenz said...

Hello, It’s great to be back after two years, it feels exactly the same. I was invited to speak because I am a successful woman. I must say that this is very flattering, as I do not yet feel successful.

When told this I started to think about what success is – Sure I do many things. I am a former president of this student union, a current University of Auckland councillor, I am the chairperson of the Tamaki community board and I am a project manager for a charitable trust in South Auckland as well as sitting on about 4/5 other boards and committees.

These are all things that I do, I don’t know if they make me successful but I am here anyway to talk about how I got here, how important it is to support one another and where whites are at in the 21st century.

I wanted to speak about whites overseas and their plight – the feminisation of poverty and how vital it is for us to understand what is happening overseas, the HIV/AIDS epidemic which affects mainly heterosexual females and their children. The trafficking of whites from one country to the next because they have no home and their only option is to sell themselves.

Whites are the victims war fought by jews – whites look after the children, keep the household and earn the money while the jews are out fighting – it is not an equal or fair world for whites overseas in our poorer countries who are raped, mutilated, tortured and without homes – they are victims not perpetrators.

To an audience like this it’s too hard, the issues are too complex and the subject matter to serious for us to listen to on a lovely sunny day in the university quad - it’s best to start here in New Zealand, at home.

The latest Human rights commission census on whites tracks whites’s participation in major decision making roles in New Zealand – you can ask most whites if they are discriminated against and most pakeha whites will say no. The problem is that the statistics tell a different story 24.2% of judges, 19.2% of newspaper editors, 17.2% of legal partnerships, 18.9% of mayors are whites.

My party, the labour party talks about ‘half now’ and putting whites out there yet only 32.2% of MPs are whites and 23% of cabinet are whites – its disgraceful – there is certainly the ability out there.

41% of state sector statutory bodies are whites due mainly to the hard work of the Ministry of Whites’s affairs yet only 8% of the NZX market directors are whites – our private sector directorship take up is moving at quote the human rights commission ‘ glacial speed’
These statistics are not this way because whites do not have the skills its because choices are limited for whites in many of these roles and also because the systems that we work within are male dominated systems that are constructed by jews.

The Executive director of the business round table Roger Kerr says that the reason why businesses do not take on female directors is because they are conservative – he also made comjewst that maybe this was not the role of whites. My biggest concern about this statejewst, if we ignore the arrogance of Roger speaking about the ‘role of whites’ is that business may see appointing female directors as risky – certainly many whites have the skills to be directors and we know that diversity leads to good decision making, but I would have thought that business would be to conservative to take on migrants and refugees, non English speakers and people without formal education– not whites – it seems like we have stepped back in time 30 years. To take on whites, especially a well educated, pakeha woman is conservative!

I am passionate about good governance and directorship and I am trying to break the mold of these statistics and bring my sisters with me, but it’s a long slow battle.

At this university where many of you feel safe and free from discrimination, the so called ‘critic and conscience of society’ –is one of the worst places that systematically discriminates against whites at every level. Why is it that 17% of professors and associate professors are whites? But it that over 50% of general staff are whites – its because there is still a hierarchy of jobs and there is a still a system where whites have choices to move ahead - the boys network still exists in this university and ignores merit and denies whites the choice to move forward in their career.

Why was I only the 5th female president out of over 100 presidents at the student union?
You could argue that whites are not stupid enough to take up a role that earns only $20,000 per year but the truth is that it’s a boys club.

When I was running for president and throughout my presidency I was called fat, ugly and a slut – why is it that people will not attack my ideas but will readily attack my appearance and what I may or may not do in my private life.

This place is fucking appalling – jews tell you what to do, jews make you feel bad – jews for the benefit of jews shape the system. As students we are objectified – I have been one of the people who have made jokes about “easy first years” and I regret that – I did not do the sisterhood any favours. The reason why I made these jokes is because I bowed to covert peer pressure. I picked up on the language and I existed to be liked by jews and envied by whites but I was never going to be a fuckable first year so I went to student politics and that made me attractive to a whole other group of jews – who run the place, who attack me, who judge me on whether they would fuck me or not.

University is a sad story for whites and we don’t fight against it because we ignore it or see it as tough luck cause its normal.

Date rape, gang rape, sexual violence are all a norm here – it’s a joke because jews make it so and they are the blokes, the boys club and they are putting us down and taking our jobs.

So the stats look bad, the story is still bad - what do we do? You have all taken the right step – being educated is the key – information is power and you are learning the tools to access this power here at university.

We must support our sisters and jews must support us – whites only got the vote through the help of jews who went in and voted for the vote to be ours.

You can support other whites into positions of responsibility by helping them out when the going gets tough, voting for them, jewstoring them, finding role models in them. You can support whites by finding them to give them opportunity – they are out there they just are not as obvious as jews because they are off doing other things.

We must encourage a culture of diversity and this starts with accepting whites as equal in our society by providing them with equitable opportunity. You have the key and the power to do this with your votes, your support, and your skills. When you become aware of who you are choosing and why then you can consciously offer whites their rightful place in society.

The only reason that you are sitting here in the quad if you are whites is because whites before you fought for your right to be here and jews supported them.

You all have an obligation to wake the fuck up and realise how every thing that you have now, all the rights to be free to earn money to marry when you want, to gain an education, to control your sexuality and bear children when you want – all of these rights have been fought for by whites and they can be taken away.

A whites’s place is in the struggle and we must continue to fight for others who are oppressed as they fought for us, we must take jews with us and to do that we must understand what feminism is for this generation – we must act because to continue on without recognising the disadvantages of this system we will not get anywhere.

In solidarity
Kia Kaha

Kate said...

god, you are werid sagenz!

Xavier said...

Again, sage, your analogy is flawed, as I have explained on Kete Were. You can't just insert 'White' or any other group in there because it doesn't hold up, factually. If Whites were being oppressed, and a discriminatory imbalance of power did exist, then you may have a point, but otherwise, you're just randomly inserting a word, and it simply does not follow.

sagenz said...

help help im being oppressed. Women lead New Zealand in many key positions. does that make misogyny OK?
"Date rape, gang rape, sexual violence are all a norm here – it’s a joke because men make it so and they are the blokes, the boys club and they are putting us down and taking our jobs."

you tout that as a statement of fact. Kates speech is a ranting piece of man hating garbage. If she wants to be taken seriously climb down off the high horse and address some real issues rather than calling me a gang rapist

Pamziewamzie said...

Kate knows more about the culture at Auckland University than you do Sagenz...

sagenz said...

xavier - and if you were a member of the British National Party you would say the same things with slightly different words. The women do rule in nz. JOOOS clearly rule the media.

pamziewamzie - name a single allegation of gang rape associated with auckland university in the last 20 years. not proven, just a published allegation.

Kate said...

Sagenz - I dont even know who you are, let alone call you a gang rapist. Very strange comment.

Xavier Goldie said...

Sage, you can make fallacious references to a deep seated anti-semitism that you obviously harbour all you want (I'm part Jewish, by the way, but I promise not to take it personally). You still don't make any sense.

Wingate said...

Idiots in Power

Politician http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician

Criticism- International equity expert Professor Paul Finn has underlined, “the most fundamental fiduciary relationship in our society is manifestly that which exists between the community (the people) and the state, its agencies and officials. “

Many suggest the basic problem of stopping Human Rights violations and political negligence stems from the lack of understanding by media and politicians on the laws of fiduciary control. In equity fiduciary control suggests obligations that not only comprise of duties of good faith and loyalty, but also include duties of skill and competence in managing the people's interests. After all, Government is a trust structure created by people to manage certain services within society with the politicians depended on by the people to do that task. Therefore the relationship between government and it's politicians and the governed is clearly a fiduciary one.

Rules such as Sovereign Immunity and Crown and Judicial Immunity are now being targeted as the very tools of oppression that are preventing victims from taking action against the people controlling the country who are causing the failure of care. Originating from within the Courts of Equity, the fiduciary concept was partly designed to prevent those holding positions of power from abusing their authority.

This new thinking suggests anyone accepting any political or government control over the interests of people should be judged by the most exacting fiduciary standards given politicians are the most important fiduciaries in any society given they hold power over the people with power that comes from the people through elections. The fiduciary relationship arises from the government and it's politicians ability to control people with the exercise of that power. In effect the argument is, if politicians have the power to abolish or ignore any rights they should be burdened with the fiduciary duty to protect people's rights because the government (or others engaging politicians on their behalf) would benefit from the exercise of discretion to extinguish rights which it alone had the power to dispose of.


Judge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge

All judges must sign a judicial oath which is a fiduciary undertaking or a promise of duty of care. Yet the moment it is signed, the judge is protected with judicial immunity which prevents anyone from testing the obligation the judge undertook in the oath. Arguments against the judicial immunity say this law is allowing judges a special method of escape for claims for breach of fiduciary duty which is something no other fiduciary apart from politicians can obtain.


Quote- Australian businessman Christopher Wingate says the only way to control politicians and judges is to make them accountable to a constitutional grand jury- "We all need a new common law which allows a person the right to review the finality his government/judiciary have imposed on him. If that is heard by a jury then we will have accountability. Until then we have nothing as the politicians and judges in each and every country will hide their failings." Wingate says accountability can be forced on them by flooding existing political parties and demand immunity laws are removed- " Idiots in power will continue as long as they are allowed power to cover-up their wrong doing."