Thursday, March 29, 2007

Section 59 Protest - "I'm Not Violent"











I was at the Section 59 Protest, and made National Headline News, check out the video. My heart had a bit of flutter when I got to talk Duncan

Here are some photos I took mainly before the bulk of protestors arrived.
I enjoyed myself immensely and as the video from one news, I don't know about three, I was also incredibly vocal. I love that in NZ when you feel strongly about something we are allowed to protest and actually have democracy being practiced here.











24 comments:

Heine said...

And yet you miss the point. All you have done is attack the people promoting the protests (Family First) and twist it round saying that the law will allow people to beat their children, and is being promoted by child beaters! So far I have not seen anything from Youth Labour that tells the truth about this debate.

Welly Girl, *come on*. When you saw that large crowd of people there did you think for one second that you are in the minority? Democracy in action indeed, but how is it democratic when Labour won't allow a conscience vote and the majority of the country are against this?

By the way, when Helen said before the election that she wouldn't ban smacking as it went against human nature, what was your opinion then?

James said...

"You are not the child abusers," libertarian Lindsay Perigo exhorted the 5-600 strong crowd, "We all know who the child-abusers are. They are the people who have children they don't want because those people in there," spinning and pointing to the Beehive, "are paying them to do it. They are the child abusers."

Never truer words spoken...

welly_girl said...

James - no one can be made to have children they do not want!!!

I loved the signs saying "parents rights" but I am sorry this is about the rights of children. And their individual right to not live in fear of being hit trumps the parents right to physically discipline.

welly_girl said...

Heine - I have always been in favour of repeal, whether Labour had been supportive or not.

James said...

"James - no one can be made to have children they do not want!!!

Would they be having them or as many if a juicy handout was not on offer....? Tui time!

I loved the signs saying "parents rights" but I am sorry this is about the rights of children."


Childrens rights are held in trust by their parents or caregivers as they are not able to exercise them or accept the corollary responsibilities that go with them.Children are NOT adults....they are apprentice adults under training.

"Their individual right to not live in fear of being hit trumps the parents right to physically discipline."

Silly out of context nonsense.Smacking is not bashing despite what the red queen says.Please end the lies...it undermines your case.

Murray said...

How many kids do you have?

Heine said...

Welly Girl - It still makes not a jot of difference. Labour are trying to force their will upon the majority of NZers and as you can see by the protests, you are in th small minority in this.
Coupled with the fact that neither you, or the PM has had experience EVER in bringing up children.

James said...

James - no one can be made to have children they do not want!!!

Tell that to the taxpayer who is forced to support the kids of others via the welfare system.

Murray....none.But if I do be certain they are mine and my responsibility.

welly_girl said...

Actually Heine you are wrong in saying I have had no role in bringing up children...

However that is something I do not wish to discuss for personal reasons.

Pamziewamzie said...

Love the pics ;)

Pamziewamzie said...

P.S. Love the pic of Jordan.

Sophia said...

Heine, that was a blatent use of ad hominem and you know it.

Attempting to put welly-girl's or the PM's arguement because of their lack of children is a fallacious arguement.

Considering you know next to nothing about Welly girl, and hardly anything about the PM, you are making a gross assumption about their experience with children.

Just because one does not have children, doesn't mean they don't know how to raise children. If you're going to proceed down that argument, we may as well stop having children altogther, seeing as all first time parents obviously havn't had children, and thus, would not know how to raise them.

Pulease.

Heine said...

Sophia, tell me how experienced Helen Clark is in bringing up children, apart from the ones in her caucus? :) HC is actually well known for her dislike of being round children.

She has no clue, hence she should listen to the parents in her caucus about this law rather than making her own judgements on child rearing.

She is trying to push this through and yet if there was a conscience vote it would fail.

Answer this, why would HC not allow a conscience vote, and why is she so hell bent on going against over 80% of the publics wishes?

Jordan said...

Thanks Pam :)

Sophia said...

Helen Clark grew up with four sisters, all who have children, and some have grandchildren. Helen previously stated before the 1999 election that she took immense pleasure in sharing time with her neices and nephews.

Find me the quote where Helen has stated her dislike of children, rather than citing some 'it is well known' crap.

Shall we return to your argument once again? If parental skills are needed to speak on section 59, then that obviously counts you out. And David Farrar, and pretty much a huge chunk of the blogosphere, etc. In fact, it cuts a huge chunk of population out that have not had children.

Once again, you refuse to actually engage in a proper argument, and resort to fallacious attacks.

Well done.

welly_girl said...

Darren Hughes made a fantastic comment the other day to a good friend of mine and finds it funny that people are angry about childless people passing laws they interpret as being about parenting.

However no on in Parliament is a murder (that we know of) and yet no one has a problem with them passing laws about murderers.

Heine said...

So lightly spanking children for misbehaving is the same as murder??
I read this new argument on Jordans blog over the weekend. Nice try, but it doesn't add up or compare to Helen telling me that my parents are now criminals from smacking me in my younger years.

Sophia, good try as well. Of course Helen would talk about her "love" of children over the election. And I want world peace and an end to world hunger :)

You didn't answer my main question. If this is the right decision, why won't she allow her MPs to vote according to their conscience? Surely this will help her MPs in marginal seats, remembering that well over 80% (getting higher every poll) are still against it. It is her defying human nature, her words not mine.

James said...

However no on in Parliament is a murder (that we know of) and yet no one has a problem with them passing laws about murderers."

Different context.Murder is by definition a violation of the right to life of a non consenting other..Smacking is correction used against what is most personally YOURS...your child,for the BENEFIT and eventual gain of that child.

Lefty child molesters....hands off what ain't yours!

Heine said...

One wonders what the left has to gain from having a generation of children who have not been disciplined. The UK has this problem now with kids stabbing and shooting each other in London, and has reintroduced measures to allow teachers to use reasonable force to restrain kids if they cause trouble at school.

Sophia said...

I'm sorry Clint, but you still have not answered my main question, seeing as I asked it first, I think I deserve an answer.

welly_girl said...

"Smacking is correction used against what is most personally YOURS...your child,for the BENEFIT and eventual gain of that child"

A child maybe yours but you do not own it and therefore can not treat it however you want.

Smacking is not benefitial to a child, I certainly know when I got smacked it just taught me to not tell the truth so I would not get smacked, and to hide my rulers.

Shutting me in my room with no tv and radio was alot more effective than any physical discipline I ever received.

Heine said...

Sophia, where oh where is your question?

By the way, are you conveniently ignoring all the news reports from the police stating they WILL follow up all claims, and also bring CYFS into it too.
http://stuff.co.nz/4011184a10.html

I actually asked a few questions, you can just admit you don't know rather than playing "I said it first" with me.

Heine said...

Welly Girl, while you might not of learned from smacking, it doesn't mean that your case applies to each and every child in New Zealand. Every child, as far as I thought, is different and reacts to punishments differently.

Even the touchy feely laws that the kids have been exposed to in the UK have failed, tragically. Now kids in London are stabbing and shooting each other. (5 in March) The British Govt has now decided to allow teachers to use reasonable force again to deal with problem students much to the relief to parents and teachers.

Heine said...

So, no reply. Hmmmn. No rebuttal?